Wednesday, September 05, 2007

More Baseball -- League Rules Thread

OK, since we're talking about the 2nd league, I figured I'd start a thread. Off the top of my head:

Please leave a comment if you are interested, and answer the following questions. Also, if you are in the current league and don't want to play, let us know. (I'd be perfectly happy to have co-managers, for people who don't want to make a full commitment, or to allow someone to manage two teams, if they really wanted more baseball ...)

1) How long/what pace/what format would you like the league to be?
2) How would you like the teams to be formed (drafted, auction)?
2a) How many teams should we have to choose from? [All ML players? 1 real team per team?]
2b) What should the minimum requirements be for a player to appear in the league
3) This is going to mean re-arranging our sets to make up the teams, how should we handle this?
4) Baseball/Strato specific rules
4a) NL or AL? (Designated Hitter)
4b) What kind of pitching rotation? Limits for relievers?
5) Rules variations -- We currently use the Advanced rules .... but we could add some super-advanced (SA) rules. Feelings on those?

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At 4:25 PM, September 05, 2007, Blogger Brian said...

Here are the Super Advanced rules:
If you are wondering, here they are:
a) SA baserunning and cutoff [13.4-13.6], including catcher blocking the plate.
b) SA fly()B? [14.4]
c) Outfielder robbing a HR [14.5]
d) SA gb() resolution [15.3]
e) SA "X charts" [16.3-7]
f) SA gb()+ (because of corners in) [17.12]
g) SA Lomax [17.22]
h) +Injury (just a different chart, 17.32. I assume we'll modify this since its not a full season league]
i) SA Sac/Squeeze chart [18.5]
j) SA H&R chart [19.5-8]
k) "Corners in" [20.2-20.8]
l) "Outfield in" [21]
m) Supplemental Stealing [23]
n) Pickoffs, Balks [24], with stealing
o) Resting Batters [Solitaire rules, 26.2]
p) Pitcher relief rules
q) Closer rule[28]
r) Balks, WP, PB (w/o stealing) [29]
s) Ballparks, Weather, Clutch hitting [30]

At 4:44 PM, September 05, 2007, Blogger Brian said...

And here are my answers:

1) I think one series per week is a good pace, and I think that 30-40 games is reasonable. I wouldn't mind a 'flexible' schedule, like I posted before (details TBD).

2) I'm partial to a draft. I could deal with an auction, but prefer a draft.

2a) I'd go with slightly more than 1 team to draft from per owner. Perhaps 1.33. Based on our rules for "Who is draftable" that number can be moved a bit. I'm ambivalent as to which teams. I don't see a problem mixing AL or NL.

2b) I like the 300AB (250 for a catcher) rule from the STAR tournaments. There is some weirdness for players who played on two teams. TBD. Starts should have 125 IP (and be a starter), relievers 40 IP (and be a reliever).

3) I think we should buy a spare set of cards (from Sean, perhaps) and divvy them up as we draft. That's well worth the money (split a few ways)

4a) NL, although if we had 8+ teams and wanted to split, that would be fine.

4b) I'd think that the SA rules on "games of rest" for starters seem reasonable. Basically, some pitchers need 3 days (games) off between starts, and some need 3-4 based on number of innings. This does mean that a pitcher who gets yanked early may only need a game or two rest. (A dubious benefit compared to getting lit up). Playing with pitching rotations is fun, and this lets teams try different things.

As for relievers, I think the current rules are nuts, but I think relievers should be limited to 3 games in a row (not two), but no more than 4 innings before a game off. [Slightly less complicated tournament rules]. So three single inning reliefs (like a closer) and a game off ... two middle reliefs (2 Innings each), game off.

5) I'm mainly for letting people decide which SA rules to play, but I'd like park effects (Draft parks), weather and clutch hitting, robbing the HR, and the SA charts, and the closer. I'm happy to avoid the supplemental stealing system.

And, as mentioned before, I'm partial to the solitaire resting rules and perhaps my 'phantom hit' variant (not a big a deal in NL).

At 7:11 PM, September 05, 2007, Blogger scott said...

1) One series per week is good; i just think 3 game series are better. I would go for 35-45 game season. As long as we are setting out managerial preference sheets and the like I would rather leave the schedule set rather then flexible.
2) I would prefer an auction but can deal with a player draft.
2a) I was thinking along the lines of n+3 MLB teams in the draft pool where n is the number of teams in our league. No problem mixing NL/AL. My only team preference is to try to moderate the overall league quality by balancing the numbers of good, average, and bad teams in the pool
2b) The 300/250/125/40 seems good.
3) Buying a league set seems fine (with that set perhaps being the prize to the winner of the league?)
4) Baseball/Strato specific rules
4a) I personally have a slight preference for playing NL (more strategy) but I slightly prefer drafting AL (more so if we are doing an auction, to decrease the chance of somebody grabbing a great player cheap at a position you already have filled; since you can always stick them at dh).
4b) While MLB starters do on rare occaision pitch on 3 days rest it is relatively rare; how many starters have 33+ starts in a season these days? So my initial personal preference was for 4 days rest required (until playoffs) thus 5 man rotations. With that said as long as the 3 vs. 4 day rest rule and which starters can qualify for which how are clear up front; I can live with it.
As for relievers I generally think Brian's ideas make sense; but I do have two concerns. First regardless of not having pitched the previous night; for most relievers today if they go 2+ ip in a game you will not see them the next night, I would like to see some restriction based on single game length and ability to go the next day. My other concern is that the 3 days/2 days/4 ip rule would still allow the stud closer or set up guy to pitch in 3/4 of the games; again you don't see any rp pitching 120 games.
5) I would like to play with all SA rules. Injuries I would say go for 1/4 of what the chart says; fragile players should be a risk and iron players worth more. I kind of like the idea of game specific rules being at the discretion of the home team or the two managers to decide; as long as we all know what the possibilities are when we draft. With all of that said whatever will make the most people happy so we can have a large fun league overrules any of the specifics. In lieu of the fantasy hits I like the total reduction/pitch count idea.

At 9:29 AM, September 06, 2007, Blogger Dennis Ugolini said...

I pretty much agree with everything Brian said except the following:

1. Starters should need four days rest, and should have their endurance rating reduced (by 1?) if they pitch on three days rest. So do you skip the fifth starter in a tough series, and risk blowing out your bullpen?

2. What do we do with starter/relievers? Make them pick?

3. I think the SA closer rule alleviates one of Scott's concerns, but I agree with him that restrictions on reliever innings should be just a bit tighter.

4. I like the solitaire rest rules and 1/4 injuries, not so much phantom hit right now (I really think people who leave their starters in too long are hurting themselves).

5. Someday I desperately want to do an auction. But perhaps this is not this day.

Is there anyone in this besides the three of us?

At 11:21 AM, September 06, 2007, Blogger seanp said...

I'm in, but am not much on the planning side. I think the SA rules look interesting, I'd definitely go for adding more of those.

At 7:20 PM, September 06, 2007, Blogger scott said...

I like the reduction in endurance for starters who go on 3 days rest. I am not sure I understand the question around starter/relievers? There should be some total number of batters faced or hits/walks/runs allowed that will chase a pitcher even if the strat rules aren't faced since it means they have thrown way too many pitches. I am all for the auction.

At 9:34 AM, September 07, 2007, Blogger Brian said...

Regarding Starter/Relievers ... The STAR rules are that they must rest normally after starting (natch) and must rest two games after relieving before starting. Seems reasonable.

As for 3 days rest, I like the idea that some pitchers just can't do 3 days rest, and others can (which is shown by the star). Perhaps pitchers with the star can do three days rest, but become vulnerable an inning (or two?) earlier, and pitchers w/o a star just can't do it.

My concerns about auctions: 1) Time, 2) time. But I'm game if everyone is comfortable.

At 12:58 PM, September 08, 2007, Blogger scott said...

do we want to/need to ask the other san antonio gaming groups to find more people interested and/or do we need to post on strat/baseball forums to find additional folks?

At 4:28 PM, September 08, 2007, Blogger scott said...

one other possibility if it would engender more interest I bought two old strat sets and an old statis pro set some time ago and we could play with the cards in those from older years; i will go thru and catalog what years I have and post

At 10:20 PM, September 08, 2007, Blogger scott said...

Not sure if there is any interest and if I should repost this fresh but ...
it turns out that I have strat cards (in some cases old version cards but in looking at them that wouldn't present a major problem) and in some cases just playoff or world series teams from the following years:
1963-7; 1969-70, 1982, 1985, 1989, and 1993
(I also have statis pro cards from 1981)
Would there be any interest in playing teams or drafting or auctioning players or otherwise using any of these instead of 2006? Personally, as someone who grew up an Orioles fan; I would love the chance to play the 1969 or 1970 O's.


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